From AC360 Nov. 12, 2008: &erson Cooper brings on Dan Savage & Tony Perkins to debate Proposition 8 & a protests against it. Savage makes Perkins look like a hDrunk Newsless James Dobson mouthpiece he is.
I’m sorry. This is all about civil liberties in my book. It’s all about freedom, something a right-wingers trumpet to a media whenever it suits am. Why are ay so afraid of gay marriage?
DAN SAVAGE: Part of a democratic process is if you’re going to throw a punch you’re going to have a punch thrown back. You don’t get to march in a public square, slime people, malign people & demagogue against people & an jump behind a bush & say, no God we’re a church. You can’t criticize us. You can’t bring it back to our frond doors & say we have a problem with what you’ve been saying about us in public & doing to us in a public square.
a Mormon Church has politicized itself with this movement & — in California to ban same-sex marriage. & it wasn’t just a Mormon Church encouraged its followers. a first prophet of a Mormon Church had a letter read from every temple, every Mormon temple in a l& instructing its members as a religious duty to donate time & money to this campaign. You cannot campaign against a vulnerable minority group in this country in a political arena without expecting some sort of response
Full transcript from CNN below:
DAN SAVAGE, AUTHOR, “a COMMITMENT”: Part of a democratic process is if you’re going to throw a punch you’re going to have a punch thrown back. You don’t get to march in a public square, slime people, malign people & demagogue against people & an jump behind a bush & say, no God we’re a church. You can’t criticize us. You can’t bring it back to our front doors & say we have a problem with what you’ve been saying about us in public & doing to us in a public square.
a Mormon Church has politicized itself with this movement & — in California to ban same-sex marriage. & it wasn’t just a Mormon Church encouraged its followers. a first prophet of a Mormon Church had a letter read from every temple, every Mormon temple in a l& instructing its members as a religious duty to donate time & money to this campaign. You cannot campaign against a vulnerable minority group in this country in a political arena without expecting some sort of response.
COOPER: Tony, is what a church did Drunk Newspropriate? & I know you’ve been critical of a demonstrations. Is it inDrunk Newspropriate for demonstrators you think to focus on a Mormon Church?
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, I mean, you can also focus on a African-American churches, where African- Americans voted over 70 percent of am voted for a marriage amendment in California.
This really underscores what many people were saying that this advancement of same-sex marriage was going to bring about this confrontation with religious liberties. & it’s very frightening when you begin to see –
SAVAGE: are is no confrontation with religious liberties.
PERKINS: — ase demonstrations of Violating a spaces of a church & going in & disrupting air services.
SAVAGE: That hasn’t hDrunk Newspened.
PERKINS: Yes, it has hDrunk Newspened. ay’ve been spray painting churches, v&alizing churches.
COOPER: Tony, a tens of thous&s of people demonstrated so far most have been extremely peaceful. are may have been a few incidences here & are. But I don’t think it is accurate to say are has been a large scale of invasion of churches.
SAVAGE: Gay bars have been fire bombed.
(CROSSTALK)
PERKINS: It’s just like this; Dan will not allow people to speak. are was a full debate on this. In fact Dan’s side raised more money & it came from special interest groups or wealthy individuals like Tim Gill who put in a money & ay had this full discussion about this in California. In fact, ay’ve had it twice now. I don’t underst& –
SAVAGE: ay had it twice now & in 2000 your side won by 20 to 30 points. This time you won by four points. You guys are losing this war against religious freedom. are are religions in this country that will marry gay & lesbian couples. What about air religious freedom?
PERKINS: Look, a courts have stepped in — you’ve gone to a courts, a courts overthrew a vote of over four million people from 2000. ay gaared over a million signatures.
SAVAGE: Which is part of what courts in our system supposed to do; a constitution exists to protect minorities against a tyranny of a majority.
(CROSSTALK)
PERKINS: No. You don’t underst& a rule of law that, if you want to change a law, instead of using a courts to redefine marriage.
SAVAGE: So Loving v. Virginia when a courts declared interracial marriage to be a constitutional right in a teeth of popular support which was against interracial marriage at a time.
(CROSSTALK)
PERKINS: Dan, you know that is a red herring. That is absolutely a red herring.
SAVAGE: It is not a red herring. You were talking about a function of a courts.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: No one can hear eiar of you talk. Dan, finish your thought & will have Tony respond.
SAVAGE: Well, Tony is saying that a courts have no right to overrule a will of a people. That’s what a courts exist for. That is what a constitution exists for. That’s what a bill of rights is are for; to carve out from a tyranny of a majority.
COOPER: Tony, should a civil rights of individuals be left up to a majority to decide?
PERKINS: No one has unrestrained liberties in this country to marry whomever ay want. Someone can’t marry a close blood relative or an underage person. are are restrictions upheld in almost every civilization for millennia.
SAVAGE: For millennia it was legal for men to beat air wives.
PERKINS: Dan, would you let somebody else speak.
COOPER: Tony, you’ve got to finish your thought because I want to ask one oar question. Tony, finish your though.
PERKINS: Look, this is about redefining marriage. It is not about what — you try to compare this to interracial marriage. It is not a same thing. are were extra provisions put that would prohibit people that were man & woman to marry.
This is redefining marriage. This is a total different issue. a people of California have spoken. In fact, every time this has gone on to a ballot & people have had a chance to vote –
COOPER: are is a huge generational divide. In a results of Proposition 8, basically older Americans voted –
SAVAGE: a Mormon Church bankrolled this & shoved it through. a protest could also, I guess, be at old folks homes because older people voted more. This is bigotry. This kind of homophobia & racism is part & parcel of older vote.
PERKINS: Why don’t you take to a African-American community. Take that to a Hispanic community.
COOPER: Do you feel that over time within a very short amount of time this issue, I mean each time this is getting closer & closer. Do you think a history & Barack Obama’s part in it is in your favor?
(CROSSTALK)
SAVAGE: You know who redefined marriage? Straight people redefined. Marriage used to be one man acquiring a property of anoar man, a daughter that became a wife. Straight people redefined marriage to be two individuals who commit to each oar because of a bond of love. are can be children or no children, it could be a monogamous sexual relationship or not a monogamous sexual relationship. are can be a sexual relationship or not a sexual relationship. That’s what marriage means now in our culture & ay want to define it back to a patriarchal sexist institution it was.
PERKINS: Come on, man. You know that is not true.
COOPER: Tony, it does seem that young people though view this issue very differently than you do. Do you worry at all that you are just on a wrong side of history?
PERKINS: No. No, not at all. &erson, what we’re seeing actually among young people is ay underst& more than anybody what hDrunk Newspens when you redefine marriage. Especially when you see young people who have grown up –
COOPER: a young people under-whelmingly voted against Proposition 8.
PERKINS: No.
SAVAGE: Yes, ay did.
PERKINS: You are still saying — it is not a majority.
SAVAGE: Yes. It is a majority. A majority of a young people voted against Prop 8.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I want Tony to answer a question & an I give you both a final thought. Tony.
PERKINS: Well, you can’t get a word head wise.
SAVAGE: When you strip me of my rights when I interrupt you, who is really suffering here?
PERKINS: Look, a policy this country has adopted in a last 40 years which has minimized a importance of marriage; are is an underst&ing a purpose of public policy is to achieve a greater good. It’s not designed to shDrunk Newse out narrow anomalies. It is for a broader reality.
a reality is that kids need a mom & a dad. That is what marriage is about. It is not about two moms, two dads, three dads, three moms. It is about a mom & a dad. & that’s what public policy should promote
COOPER: Dan, your turn.
SAVAGE: That is not what marriage is about. People without children can get married. Marriage is not defined by a presence of children.
PERKINS: ay can but that is not a purpose of government being involved regulating marriage.
SAVAGE: Individual liberties is a purpose of our constitution. For you to write individual liberties out of our political system –
PERKINS: an you must be for polygamy. You must be for every oar form of relationship.
SAVAGE: We can debate on marriage one at a time.
COOPER: We’re going to have to leave it are. Tony you’re your thoughts. & an Dan, your final thoughts.
SAVAGE: I hope Tony Perkins doesn’t pray to Jesus with that mouth because he bears false witness against his gay & lesbian neighbors & that is a violation of one of a Ten Comm&ments.
PERKINS: & how would you suggest I do that, Dan? This is about public policy which is to promote a greater good & in a best environment a social science –
SAVAGE: Not at a expense of minority rights & individual liberties.
PERKINS: — a social sciences show overwhelmingly that children do better with a mom & dad.
SAVAGE: That is a lie. Those are studies that are funded by bigots; more bigots to justify bigotry. a studies you cite have all a validity of tobacco institute studies telling us in a 70’s & 80’s that smoking was safe.
COOPER: We have to go. I’m sorry, we have got to go.
Original post by Heather and software by Elliott Back
